Jack Smith takes Mike Pence to court
DOJ Special Counsel Jack Smith has reportedly asked a judge to compel Mike Pence’s testimony, per CBS News. This shouldn’t take long. Courts tend to resolve disputes over grand jury subpoenas quickly, which is why there’s really no “delaying” or “running out the clock” on them.
When a grand jury subpoena is challenged, the courts typically rule that the witness has to answer questions about this topic but not that topic, and so on. So this could limit the scope of Pence’s testimony. But he will have to end up testifying soon. That’s just the reality of how grand jury subpoenas work.
Grand jury subpoenas are fundamentally different from, say, congressional subpoenas. We just saw this in the Fulton County grand jury probe, where every witness ended up having to testify, and legal challenges over testimony were quickly settled by the courts. You can go into court and fight a congressional subpoena for years. If you go into court and fight a grand jury subpoena, you swiftly lose, and then you swiftly testify.
Pence obviously wants the DOJ to take Trump out before 2024. That’s just so self evident. So why is Pence putting on a show like this? Either he wants the courts to exclude specific topics that make him look bad, or he just wants Trump’s base to think he tried to help Trump. But Pence understands that there’s no magically running out the clock on a grand jury subpoena.
Remember, up to now the media’s sole source for this “Pence is refusing to testify against Trump” narrative has been Pence himself. He leaked that he’d been subpoenaed. He leaked that he was going to just magically not testify. And he’s a known liar, so he’s not a legitimate source for anything.
It’s also being reported by CBS News today that the judge is putting a gag order on everyone involved with the case. Did the DOJ ask the judge for the gag order, so Pence can’t keep grandstanding about his subpoena in the media?
One side effect of this gag order is that no one will be able to leak to the media about their subpoena or testimony. So we’ll probably stop seeing those kinds of headlines. This doesn’t mean it’s stopped happening, just that it’s stopped being leaked while it’s happening.
It’s always crucial to remember that in grand jury criminal probes, a lack of recent headlines about progress does not indicate a lack of recent progress. It just means any progress isn’t being leaked to the media by anyone involved.
And once again, let’s remember what we just saw in Fulton County: there is no such thing as dodging or significantly delaying a grand jury subpoena. Every single person who was subpoenaed in Fulton County ended up testifying. The handful of reluctant witnesses who challenged their subpoenas in court? They quickly lost those challenges, and they all ended up testifying.
It’ll be the same thing with the DOJ Special Counsel probe. Every single person who’s subpoenaed will end up testifying fairly promptly, because there is literally no such thing as running out the clock. And anyone who still refuses to show up for a grand jury subpoena, even after the courts have ruled that the person must show up, will simply be hauled in by the judge and/or hit with contempt of court.
Keep in mind that three of Donald Trump’s own attorneys testified against him to the DOJ grand jury last month. Team Trump certainly would have liked to have stopped that from happening. But once again, there is no such thing as ignoring or significantly delaying a grand jury subpoena. And that won’t change no matter how many pundits on TV or Twitter try to stir up drama and attention by claiming that Pence or other witnesses will just magically run out the clock.
Pence can leak and bloviate to the media all he wants, but he literally has no choice but to testify immediately after the courts swiftly rule that he has to testify. Actually, come to think of it, thanks to the new gag order, Pence can’t even leak and bloviate to the media anymore.
