Everyone you heard on that classified documents recording has likely testified against Donald Trump already
The other people heard on the Donald Trump classified documents recording are starting to be publicly identified. This has led to a significant amount of speculation on social media about whether or not they’ll decide to testify against Trump. It’s important to remember that none of them actually get to make that decision.
The parameters are more complex when it comes to co-conspirators (such as Giuliani or Meadows) who committed crimes with Trump. The Fifth Amendment protects them from being forced to testify against themselves, which means they can’t be forced to testify about the crimes that they committed with Trump. So they’re useless as witnesses unless they cut a cooperation deal, which comes with negotiations about how much leniency they’ll get and so on, and can take a long time to hammer out.
But the people on the Trump classified tape were not committing crimes; they simply witnessed Donald Trump committing a crime. That means the Fifth Amendment doesn’t apply to them, and under the law they absolutely must testify against Trump. They don’t get to “decide” whether to cooperate. They can either testify against Trump and go free, or they go to prison for obstruction.
That’s why people who were in the room, but didn’t participate in the crime, are the most ideal witnesses. The Fifth Amendment doesn’t exist for them. Nor do they have to worry about getting in any legal trouble by testifying. In contrast, they’ll only get into legal trouble if they don’t testify. So it’s a pretty easy decision: testify and go home, or throw your life away by not testifying.
Walt Nauta is an example of a witness who didn’t commit any crime to begin with (he wouldn’t have known or reasonably understood what was in the boxes Trump had him move), but he ended up criminally charged solely for refusing to give truthful testimony against Trump. Nauta is idiotically going to prison for nothing.
So when you’re trying to guess whether the other people on that Trump tape will testify against him, you don’t have to ask if they’re patriots willing to stand up and do the right thing. You just have to ask if they’re Walt Nauta level idiots.
While Nauta is the poster child for Trump fans who idiotically remain loyal to him until the bitter end, we keep seeing people who are not willing to go to prison for Trump. Several of his own attorneys have testified against him in the classified documents probe, specifically because refusal to testify would have gotten them indicted for obstruction.
It’s also important to remember that with grand jury subpoenas, there’s no such thing as just magically dragging them out; the court tends to act on them swiftly. And if prosecutors have taken the time to do a thorough enough job of piecing together the big picture, witnesses can’t get away with just lying, for fear of going to prison for perjury.
So the odds are good that everyone who was in the room during the “Trump tape” conversation will end up testifying against him. In fact the odds are pretty good that they’ve all already testified against him, given that Jack Smith certainly would have subpoenaed them all the minute he obtained the recording.
Remember, we’re getting all of the information about Jack Smith’s work on a delay. It all happens in secret by default. We only hear about it in real time if the media happens to spot a high profile witness entering a courthouse or something like that. Short of that, we only hear about it after the fact, and then only once someone involved with the case has some specific motivation to give the information to the media.
If I were forced to make an educated guess, I’d guess that everyone you heard on that Trump tape has testified against Trump already. Why wouldn’t they? Not everyone is as mind bogglingly stupid as Walt “I threw my life away for no reason” Nauta.
